Managed to get a pair of games in today - vs the two lists I really wanted to face off against pre-tourney - a Eldrad Eldar List and a Null Zone Space Marine list (though I think he took Null Zone as he saw my army - I am pretty sure he doesnt normally take this lol, but I am glad he did).
GAME ONE: vs Footdar
Eldrad
Avatar
10 Dire Avengers w/ Exarch - Waveserpent chincannon/brightlance
5 Path Finders
10 dragons - WS w/ chincannon/brightlance
3 warwalkers - scatter lasers
3 warwalkers - EML's
KP / Dawn of War
So he deploys first, and puts his avatar and rangers on the mid way line, bah I have to deploy quite far back and I do so stupidly w/ belials FNP squad and 1 other 18" from him off at an angle. This was mistake one. I actually think I may have been better reserving everything and DWA 2 squads in (maybe walking in 1) and turbo'ing in the bikes - this way I could have maybe pinned him in. Being DOW the first turn is nothing. I did outflank my bikes.
In T2 he shoots at the DWA squad I bring in to the right of his castle (he castled in the center, wave serps covering his war walkers) - he gets his avengers and fire dragons out and blasts them to the lone CML guy. I respond with 1 bike squad coming on near them and I fuck up again, as I shot the wave sepernt and killed it with attack bike (good) but shot the dire avengers with the bolters - leaving the CML to charge alone into the dragons - who did 1 wound and I rolled a 1 .... so its 1-1 and I now have 2 easy KP's in his ranks.
In T3 he promptly kills those 2 biker groups and goes 3-1 up, and starts to work on the next squad which I fail 3 2 ups from the scatters on 6 dice and lose all 3 TH/SS guys leaving the CF and CML (I think), he then pot shots and kills the CML. I in turn run that CF away, and get the bikes in to try and finish off some other bits in his lines, I take out another serpent but it requires a charge from the bikers, and the attack bike does nothing. I should have used them both to kill the avengers and fire dragons really.
In his T4 I just say if you can kill the bikes its over, he takes out the 2nd term squad and kills both bikes - he's now 6-1 up and I have only 2 CML's left and am no where near him really. I call it.
CONLUSION
I think what annoyed me is he was so sure he'd batter me, and after the game he talked so much about how bad his rolling was and how big a counter he is. In reality he was putting on 20 wounds of 2+ onto 5 men, I'd roll 3 on 1 guy and fail all 3 - that was the sort of rolling I had - his dire avengers did 15 wounds, I rolled 9 1's - and only 1 of the dice was above 3. In the entire game I also didnt get to swing a single close combat weapon ...
I played myself out of this and what were the mistakes?
Mistake 1: Isolation
This is something you cant do as DW, certainly not against a army that CAN fire that much damage. Dropping my squad on his wings as a threat mean they HAD to be dealt with, and they were. This was mistake one and a costly one - it meant I lost 4 terminators on T2 and they were my only threat really. If you keep the terminators close together in these sort of missions - then it forces him to try and decide what one is the threat - he shoots at that, and the next turn you present 2 or 3 other squads as bigger threats and now all that shooting was for nothing (really)
Mistake 2: Deployment
I honestly think I should have walked EVERYTHING on. Force him to choose where to castle. He castled right in between my eye's - making me choose which way to go - and it essentially took 2 squads out of the game. If I walked on, he'd have no idea where I was going, and I just run for the first 2 turns to where I want to be, and force him to re-deploy his entire army into the open rather than walk into his nicely made castle which was only nicely made by where I had pre-deployed. This includes the bikes, as I could turbo them 24" out of LOS and force him to either move to shoot at them and thus suffer shots without cover, or face all that melta the following turns. This goes hand in hand with DONT FEED PIECEMEAL.
Mistake 3: Target Choices
Really I didnt take what was offered to me - part was down to my deployment. My plan was to hammer those WW's with CML's for 2 or 3 turns, cover or not - I ended up shooting at them 3 times in the game, I.E they suffered me shooting a total of 6 CML's at them. Secondly, I did have a chance with the bikers to take out the fire dragons (potentially either get stuck in combat, which would be good, or get a KP and consolidate into cover). Instead I did a mixture of both and it cost me 2 KP's. Annoyingly the opponent didnt understand what I meant when I made this mistake and he was chatting about how I was just wrong to go there, but in reality, those FD's ended up killing the bikes and terminator (in combat) and killing 2 more later. I really think they were game changers, and this cost me majorly. I shoudlnt have gambled 1 TH/SS would survive 7 or 8 I5 attacks - dont take that risk - charge the bikes in, if he attacks the TH/SS so be it - but the bikes would probably have taken out a few via shooting (I killed like 3 DA's) and then their charge as well - I might have still lost the TH but I'd have had that melta tucked up nicely for a turn not getting AP1 fired into it.
These 3 cost me majorly and I need to think about them in the future. I want a rematch vs this guy QUICK, so I am probably going to pull a sickie next week (yes karma you can bitch slap me for that) to get a game in vs him.
Though I am not 100% that I did deploy completely incorrectly. Mistake 3 really did cost me, but I think mistakes 1 and 2 would not have been nearly as bad if I dropped at the very least Belial - thats another 3 2++'s I'd have to fail - and another body to allocate to - if I had done the command squad then that's FNP - that really was mistake 4 - not being aggressive with the command squad but a standard squad - I think if I had Belial + 1 TH/SS and did what I did (shoot the avengers) I'd have been alright - those Fire dragons would have gone away v.quick.
I am re-matching him next week - and put it this way, I've learnt my lesson against this list (or types of list).
Avoid isolating, especially normal units. Keep priority right on track and don't be afraid of running if I need to get some where! This was a horrible game for me, but tbh I deserved more than 2 KP's for my efforts, and I fed him 4 very easy KP's.
GAME TWO: vs "Salamander" Codex Space Marines
Libby - Nullzone / Vortex (and TDA)
5x TH/SS Terms
Rifleman
Rifleman
10x Tactical Marines - Flamer MM - Rhino
10x Tactical marines - Flamer MM - Razorback
Speeder MM/HF
Speeder MM/HF
Vindicator
Vindicator
Thunderfire Cannon
So not a terrible list, but again not optimised, but this is the sort of list you look at and don't think push over, and potentially a lot of stuff that could hurt my list - 2 vindicators and 5 TH/SS null zone'd termies.
THE SETUP
4 Objectives
Pitched Battle
The board was much the same as the last game with plenty of buildings, one big one just off centre towards what would be his board edge, then each corner had another smaller building (ruin) and some craters in between - there was open space on "my right" flank between the corner buildings and the centre.
The objectives he places 1 in what is his zone - on the top level of the ruin (my top left) and I place one right out in the open space I described above (I dont need cover to hold objectives) - he places one on the 2nd floor of the big building, so I place one 12" from my objective near a ruin in what becomes my side.
He takes "his" side when he wins to go first, plops his combat squad from the razor in there with no special weaps, and the thunder fire cannon. Vindies hide behind the rhino and razor back behind the big building in the center of the board and the speeders and termies reserve.
I set up with belial's CML looking down at the rhino, a middle squad to take the open ground, and a right hand to take the right objective. The bikes start on the table this time and I DWA 1 squad.
THE GAME
C:SM T1 - I failed to seize so he trundles forward - vindicators and rhinos move a bit towards the center objective and to get into range of me. He fires his thunder fire at one squad of bikes with that stupid difficult terrain thing - one thing, his TF NEVER scattered off, nor did his vindicators, in the entire game, I think out of 5 turns he had 1 TF scatter out of range (from 4 shots) so thats 19 "hits" out of 20 - basically when he did miss, he missed by no more than 6 or 7" getting reduced to "enough to still hit". Just silly really was - where are the 12" scatters man? He doesn't kill anything this turn, or may have dropped a single terminator or something. He also shot and took a wound off an attack bike w/ the riflemans
DW T1 - My squad lands in the center and I do actually run them to avoid getting vindicator'd and TF'd with mass template's, the rest of my army moves. I want to take out his troops in the tanks, so I shoot and stun both the razor and rhino, I turbo the bikes and lose the sarge to dangerous terrain from the stupid TF cannon. One MM attack bike pens the rhino and with its +1 manages to stun the rhino. The other shoots at the TF but it makes its 3++ cover save.
CSM T2: He gets both speeders, and doesnt scatter. He moves his vindicators around to hit my bikes w/ one and the terms that DS'd with the other. The TF and vindy kill a couple of the terms combined w/ some bolter fire and what not, the MM's LS's try to take out a couple of guys from my other squads but fail.
DW T2: I am now ready to pounce! The melta bikes move to hit his razor and if one gets it first turn I can shoot the other vindicator (or charge it!) the DS'd terms move to charge the rhino (or hopefully its contents) also wanted to get rid of the speeders. Bike one explodes the razor, kills 1 guy. Excellent. Bikes two explode the vindicator - excellent. I choose not to charge with the single bike as I felt it prob would have died, though I think this was a mistake. CML 1 fires and shakes the rhino. Crap. Need to fire into it again - but 2nd time lucky and I do blow it up so. I manage to kill 1 speeder I believe. In combat I absolutely deck the tactical squad to a man (killed about 7, they lost 3 in the explosion off like 7 wounds).
CSM T3: He gets his terms but they mishap back into reserves - he did DS into the crowded midfield, but tbh if he did land he'd have gotten charged by 3 squads and no way he survived. His shooting decks all my bikes that remained, and killed a couple off the squad that just wiped out his marines, infact I think he killed the remaining 3 guys - bloody thunderfire cannon - seriously.
DW T3: I want to get rid of his remaining troops but they are all out of LOS, so I dont have much choice - I try a bit of shooting and rejigging into midfield - his speeder is invulnerable it seems and I only shake it, not even stun it, I take an arm off the rifleman and thats it. Not a great turn.
CSM T4: He gets his terms and drops them in the midfield, casts nullzone. He fires at my full 5 man squad that is near his lines. I failed 1 nullzone re-roll. The rest died to 2 ups from the TH and 5 man squad of bolters. Just horrendous, I actually was worried at this stage, REALLY worried.
DW T4: I HAVE to deal with the terminators so I pull 2 squads from their objectives (belial in the middle and the ones in my rear field) and double charge. Belial kills 2 guys I think, the libby kills none, he kills 1 with TH/SS and mine kill 2 more - he runs 7" and I consolidate belial's unit 2" - just enough to keep them running next turn - my other squad consolidates 6" back - now can easily hold the 2 objectives in my rear field if I dont suffer another silly turn of TF fire.
CSM T5: He keeps trying to tell me that his libby has already rallied and he can do stuff again, so I get the rule book out and break it down for him "If in your movement phase 1 of these 3 is in place you still run" as per the BRB in the Morale section "but but, you rally dont you? automatically?" Nope, go ahead and take another run away check, 7" - oh thats 2" from your board edge, damn. His TF shoots at the command squad and I lose 1 or 2 guys - even with FNP. I shrug off the vindicator - even with nullzone.
DW T5: I really didnt know what to do - and I remembered a neat trick from one of my games with my guard mate - split Belial off - I felt he could JUST make the charge on his TF objective (the combat squad) and at the very least contest it, if not wipe them out, he needed a 3 or 4 I think to get into combat on the terrain check. The other squad moved into midfield, not quite sure why though - they were definatly in a risk of being charged by the TH's if it went T6 - I should have moved back towards the center objective and at worst been contesting it. Anyway - shooting imobalised the vindicator - which was good if it went T6 or T7, not so good with my 2 guys sat about 10" away from it. I tried to take out his invulnerable speeder of unkillingness (it actually has taken about 5 TH's pen's and survived, on top of 4 or 5 CML pen's and only been stunned once). And I of course only shake it. Big roll is the Belial charge - and he gets a 5 and a 6 - easily makes it into combat with the combat squad. He goes first, hits 4 times, wounds 3 times, they hit back and I think do a wound! He passes LD - but I am contesting!
We roll to see the end of the game - its a 1.
CONCLUSION:
It was a bit of squeeky bum time in the end - that TF cannon just wouldn't stop hitting, he refused to admit that it was well above what it should be, in T3 and T4 he was pumping out 15 wounds, not hits, wounds with it. Just silly. Nullzone was a bit scary for me, I have to say - but I forgot its a shooting attack so he cant cast it when I charge - which is massive - so I can really try and time things well with that.
We looked at what would have happened in T6 (we chatted about it) and he'd have charged the libby and last 2 TH/SS into Belial - which I wanted. Belial kills those last 2 easy - and ofcourse dies, but he only has that 4 man combat squad - and he had 2 terms near him that were no garantee of being killed (TF, 4 bolters and 1 vindicator - really wouldnt do THAT many wounds - and the TF would have had to shoot at the bigger squad tbh) - so in the end, despite the horrific T4 where losing an entire squad hurt (I still dont understand how he did it, it wasnt like he did 30 wounds, it was about 15 or 16 wounds that killed them, though I do think he rapid fired his bolters from about 15" away tbh).
I was quite pleased with some of the game, early I was excellent and late I was good, especially with the Belial move, but I think in T3 and T4 I slacked because I really was in a commanding position. I'd lost my bikes, but they'd dropped his vindicator and knocked out any chance of him taking my objectives really - but I think I should have charged with them and put him down to that 1 scoring unit and a "bunch of contesters". That TF cannon - they are not great, but FUCK it was annoying - he just didn't miss with it.
One thing I realised, while I was faffing around going for the middle objective and had 2 squads near it, I could have quite easily gone the other way and taken his objective and charged his TF cannon straight after. No cover saves from TH's playing polo with your face.
OVERALL
So 1-1 from today, but a lot of mistakes, which are good, with 3 weeks to go till the tourney I need to make the mistakes now so that I don't screw up later. These are both lists that could show up in a tourney - they are not "net lists" but they are quite well made and sort of things a good player would find and play effectively.
I am a bit bitter about the Eldar loss, but that's just because I think he is v.cocky about his list and it really is a case of once I beat it, that's it for him. Hopefully its this coming Thursday.
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