So I wanted to start this again, especially in the run up to Brighton, so I can read through some of my mistakes. My last documented game (outside of the the Blog War games) was against Chaos a few months back - since then I've had a damn sight lot more games, and vastly more experienced with this army now.
But anyway - last night I got in a game versus one of the better players at the store, so much so that he actually picked up 2nd in a 2500 tourney at the weekend. His weakness arguably is that he swaps a bit between lists, never quite settles, but he does run BT's and Wolves very well, and is "older" shall we say (me being 27 that says something) and a hell of an experienced player.
My list is my standard 1750 Tourney List:
Belial - LC's
Terminator Squad - Banner/TH/SS - Apoth/TH/SS Sarge/TH/SS Regular TH/SS CML/TH/SS
Terminator Squad - Sarge/TH/SS - Regular TH/SSx2 - CML/TH/SS - LC
Terminator Squad - Sarge/TH/SS - Regular TH/SSx2 - CML/TH/SS - LC
Terminator Squad - Sarge/TH/SS - Regular TH/SSx2 - CML/TH/SS - LC
Terminator Squad - Sarge/TH/SS - Regular TH/SSx2 - CML/TH/SS - LC
Ravenwing Squad - Sarge - MB/CC/BP - MGx2 - Attack Bike w/ MM
Ravenwing Squad - Sarge - MB/CC/BP - MGx2 - Attack Bike w/ MM
1750 on the dot.
The evolution of this list since Brighton (at 1500) was that I dropped the 10 points in CF's - paired with the other points I had left over I had enough to grab a banner. Now this is hotly debated, but in honesty, the banner over the past 10/15 games has done far more than the the FNP seriously. Most people now ignore that FNP squad, and really I only get FNP against the odd pot shot (which you rarely fail the save anyway) and in combat.
The LC's I am still umming and arring over. They have their uses against MEQ, being able to strike at initiative does help, and its also slightly a anti-horde use, with their lower I ("horde" nids and orks) I can swipe a few before their attacks, or at least inflict a few wounds if they do charge and then allocate onto the LC as he's "done his job" to try and keep the TH/SS's swinging.
His list:
Rune Priest - LL / MH
Rune Priest - LL / Jaws
8xGH MoW Banner MG Rhino
8xGH MoW Banner MG Rhino
7xGH MoW Banner MG Rhino (non-priest)
5xGH Flamer - Razor TL-LC
4xWG - PFx3 Combix3
5xScouts - MGx1
TWCx4 - PF / SS / MB / Naked
Long Fangs x5 ML - Razor TL LC
Long Fangs x5 MG
So a pretty solid list, people might begrudge the TWC, but you'd be hard pushed to REALLY criticise this list, its clearly built competitively, and it will munch a lot of people around here. Tbh I have to say I prefer larger GH squads, with banners and even mark they are a big threat, he had the priests and guard in there obviously so they were really quite a good all round unit.
THE GAME
Was a great game, we played it pretty "unforgiving" but in a friendly way. He forgot to pop banner at one stage (it didn't really effect much) and I forgot to shoot and assault with an attack bike. We'll come to that later.
It was Dawn of War Kill Points
Board had 2 larger bits of area terrain on either flanks of the board. A row of tree's went diagonally down the middle of the board in between this, and then each side had a couple of small area terrains in the corners. No real LOS (we have very little LOS terrain at the store, except some WH stuff which most of us hate) - LOS bits do help me sometimes, because obviously cover is nothing, and I quite like being able to hide a lone TH/SS survivor to go and hold and objective.
He wins to go first and takes the far board edge, this had a big ruin with a 2nd level and windows for his long fangs, but we ruled on the other side it wasn't area as it was just simply an open platform and we saw no reason a squad should get cover.
DEPLOYMENT:
He sets up 2 empty rhinos 8" on. I walk everything on (I was originally going to set up 2 squads, but I wanted to be able to contact him on my own terms - so I wanted to see where he deployed)
TURN 1:
He rocks into the rhino, and ploughs forward 6 or 12 and pops smoke. The full razor comes over a hill at the back and pops smoke, the empty razor (LF's) comes and hides behind the ruin, deploying his LF's near the ruin, he runs them up but doesnt quite get them in. The other fangs walk and run. The TWC hide behind his razors.
I walk on - pretty much the other side of the board, with it being KP's I want to just basically remove those fangs from the equation. I outflanked the bikes as if I got lucky I could charge those fangs and tie them up and maybe gain a KP via shooting + charge. My terms basically phalanxed pretty defensively on my board edge, but set up so I could shoot at both rhinos. In shooting 4 of my 5 squads failed to see, only one needed 24" - the rest needed no more than 20" so utter failure there, the one that did see rolled a 1 and a 2 for pen. Thats the jaws priest ready to go then :/
TURN 2:
He pushes forward, runs his fangs up into the ledge, and his wolves run a bit further - staying out of the buisness - he wanted to counter charge these to clean up squads. He shuffles around, and fires off a couple of shots from lascannons, and then jaws 2 of 3 terminators. That squad is reduced to 2 guys due to lascannons.
My T2 I don't have all that much to do just yet. I get both bikes, one comes on the "wrong" side and splits, the other comes on my choice and I go for the fangs, I shoot and kill 3 but can't get into charge distance. Shooting wrecks his jaws rhino, and then shooting stuns and weap destroys his rhino, but nothing else, which gets charged and roll a ton of 5's but no 6's to hit. I do have one squad quite isolated, but the command squad is about 10" away from them, with a annoying terrain piece in the middle, so I was a bit worried, the 2 lone dudes are sitting on the board edge.
1-0 KP me (rhino)
TURN 3:
He pretty much gets everything out. The MD Priest squad rocks up to rapid fire the squad in combat with a tank. He moves his wolves up towards the bikes, but not really fast due to fleet. He rapid fires 2 squads at the terminators in combat, and does nothing. His jaws priest actually hides behind the wreck, and pops off living lightning at the MM bike - but only causes a wound. I manage to explode his empty rhino in combat being still in B2B with it.
2-0 KP me (rhino x2)
I have quite a few options. I swing the bikes on my right out turbo - I want to draw his wolves away for a bit and they might be that juicy bait. The MM bike gets in to help shoot at a razor back. On his side of the board I still have that MM after 3 of the bikes got shot up, so I move that to take on his razor but I forget to both shoot and assault and he kills it next turn for a KP. My squad that just took out the rhino moves to assault his MD priest, and belials command squad works its way around a building to try and assault his other squad that disembarked. The 2 man squad shuffles along the back edge, and the other 2 squads work their way towards the center since action will probably start to slow down now with combat (well speed up and slow down in a weird way). I frag the MD squad and kill like 3 or 4 guys. I do the same to the other squad, and kill a few, except the MG which if he died I'd have never got into combat. Both pass LD. The other CML weapon destroy the razor which has GH in, so one less lascannon to worry about.
Combat and the MD squad makes it with no difficult terrain. Belials squad needs a 6 and gets it - I can only get 3 guys in though, but thats still 12 attacks with the banner. I lose 1 dude, and swing back and kill them to the WG who runs, another KP to me (GH). The other combat see's me take his down to 1 Wulfen, 1 WG and the priest, but I lose 2 1 to the priest and 1 to the PF and I actually lost combat (because I had killed so many with the frag, that was basically a big winner there). He popped banner on the squad that actually ran, but forgot to pop on the one that won combat, honestly it wouldnt have made a difference but because of that I couldn't go back and shoot the MM - which prob would have taken that razor out (MM on rear, then krak, 4's to hit if I didnt imob it). Shame I thought that would cost me.
End of 3 its 3-0 - 2xRhino 1xGH
TURN 4:
He needs to start getting KP. Annoyingly I forgot to use that attack bike, so thats a free KP with the lascannon really. The wolves go after the bikes and will probably get them, but that probably leaves them out of the game until T6 (I hope). His jaws priest moves out of squad to jaws some terminators and his GH's move to rapid fire the MM bike - potentially a couple of KP's on offer here for him. The wolves get to the bikes and wreck them. The jaws priest takes another 2 terminators - hitting only 3 again, so 4 for 6! His rapid fire doesnt hurt the bike (5's to wound is a bitch) and his scouts fail to kill anything in shooting (he forgot to charge them). In combat I am still bogged down by the rune priest lol - I kill off another couple of dudes, leaving the wulfen and priest.
KP - 3-2 (rhinox2 1xGH he's got 2 bike squads)
My T4 and I split Belial and the command squad. The command squad goes to finish that priest off and then look at dealing with the remaining rhino's/razors probably. I charge the 2xTH into the scouts hoping to deck them, before they do much. Belial joins a squad and they look to hit into the GH's - the MM lines up on the rune priest, maybe it will start doing something. The other CML squad will go into that GH squad as well as I don't want to risk getting stuck with those wolves running around, and hopefully get a good consolidation that forces them to be 2 far through those tree's. Combat and the scouts kill 1 terminator, losing 2 in return, but stick. The command squad decks the priest and wulfen, not before they finish that remaining terminator squad. Belial and co take out the GH's, and the MM did in fact instagib the priest. Belial and co get shitty consolidation so I basically put Belial back up against a rhino and circle the squad around him, then use the other squad to block a route to the MM attack bike.
KP - 7-3
rhinox2 3xGH runepriest x2
Bikesx2 Terminatorx1
TURN 5:
Getting interesting now. I actually have a solid lead. I've knocked out all his big GH squads, and both priests, his fangs are really ineffectual, despite using frags most of the time and getting a good few wounds, but his wolves will be the changer if anything. He shuffles them around looks to multi charge the squad and bike, but gets no luck. His 5 man GH gets out and looks to plough into that squad as well - between shooting and assault he takes out the squad. The wolf scouts actually kill off the last TH before he swings (and his WG PF did jack all lol).
KP 7-5 (he nets 1xTerminator squads)
At this stage I was thinking about multicharging, but didn't think it was worth the risk. Belial and co will take the 5 man GH. I potentially get 2 more KP's here which seals the game, as I only have 3 more on the table and theres no way he can get to that command squad or really kill them. I only really have charges to do, I deck the 5 man GH squad easy, another KP, and manage to kill off the scouts as well for no loss. The MM attack bike had hidden from the fangs behind a rhino and failed to do anything to the rhino. Belial consolidates again in the same way - protecting himself from that PF. The command gets like 5" so I consolidate back towards belial knowing whats coming.
KP 9-5 (4xGH 2xPriest 2xRhinos 1xScouts)
TURN 6:
We get a turn 6 and he can still get a couple more KP's. He tries to pot shot that MM, but ends up multi charging with the wolves into it and kills the bike, and I think kills 1 terminator. I manage to put a wound on all of the wolves killing none.
9-6 (MM AB)
My T6 and I get a charge in. With the command squad - we had a bit of contention here, as Belial does a wound to kill off 1 dude, he removes the PF which was all the guys that were in base contact with (the command squad) he maintains that I can't swing back, but I am sure I just move forward as its the squad not a IC or anything. Know one really knows, though I have asked a tourney before and just told to move forward again (I let people do that anyway).
TURN 7:
It doesnt overly matter, I kill a couple more guys I think (in T6) , but its over anyway - even if they didn't swing, I'd have done enough with Belial to kill a couple more (instead the SS ends up making saves) and then finished with the command squad.
10-6 (wolves)
CONCLUSION:
Well it was a great game, and like after the last time he faced me (with his jumper BA's) we went and had a beer and talked about some up coming tourneys and what not (with a couple of other players).
I played the game OK. I think I should have deployed a bit more centerally, and really need to figure out better way to protect against Jaws - I did ok with the concertina pattern, and crap rolls (should be 2 for 6 not 4 for 6) really was the problem. The bikes were awful. 400 points to take out a couple of long fangs and a rune priest. I needed to be defensive with them in this game. I should have straight up reserved or even come on in my T1 - the long fangs / lascannons were the threat, but I could have easily just kept them 72" away in this mission, he'd have only got a shot on them earliest T3 - and might have been able to bring some melta to bare.
I have to say the bikes are still tricky at times to know what to do, but thats the biggest learning with the list.
You have to look at both range, and the threat of outflank/reserves. Last night was an example where I could just use the range to protect them for a while, then hid them behind a terminator squad for a 4+ etc..
Overall though was a good game. First "proper" wolves lists I've played against in a while, and first time I've seen non-retarted TWC so that was cool. I was wondering what they'd do (they did take a squad, but that required 5 more dudes to chip in as well, against only 3 heads) but ended up getting munched. A big old wolf star will be an issue, but he'll have crappy support (prob only 2 LF squads and then like 3 GH squads)
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